Roman and Jonathan are joined by legal scholar, academic and writer, Professor Iain Benson. Professor Benson argues that religious and philosophical virtues need to be incorporated into our legal and political framework to give effect to the virtues of equality, fairness and transformation. The hosts and Professor Benson discuss human nature, the role of belief in a liberal society as well as why Marxism has insufficient virtues to promote pluralism. The conversation ends off with a novel approach to the abortion debate.